“Earth as Ancestral and Future Expertise”: An Interview With Gabriela de Matos and Paulo Tavares, Curators of the Brazil Pavilion and Winners of the Golden Lion on the 2023 Venice Biennale

Questioning the canonical historical past of structure and shedding gentle on long-invisible spatial practices, Gabriela de Matos and Paulo Tavares suggest the exhibition “Terra” [Earth], on the Brazilian pavilion on the Venice Structure Biennale 2023. “It is our method of shaking issues up,” say the curators, who flip their consideration to ancestral methods of coping with the land, aiming for extra truthful and full prospects for the current and future.

Addressing “earth” in all its meanings, the curators overlay points associated to soil and territory with the planetary issues. They suggest an method to reparations and decoloniality – rising in Brazil – with broad subjects reminiscent of decarbonization and the atmosphere, decisive within the modern international debate. The Brazilian Pavilion titled Terra [Earth], received the Golden Lion for Finest Nationwide Participation on the 2023 Venice Structure Biennale, on Saturday twentieth of Could, chosen by a jury comprising Italian architect and curator Ippolito Pestellini Laparelli as president, Nora Akawi, Thelma Golden, Tau Tavengwa, and Izabela Wieczorek.

Divided into two galleries, entitled “De-colonizing the Canon” and “Locations of Origin, Archeologies of the Future”, the pavilion constructing is reworked right into a site-specific set up. It receives a Sankofa fence on the façade and materials crafted by Alaká weavers on the within. To finish the set up, the constructing’s flooring will probably be lined with soil, making a type of terreiro: an invite to guests to step on frequent floor.

We talked to Gabriela and Paulo concerning the pavilion mission and the way it pertains to the Brazilian and international context. Learn under.

Romullo Baratto (ArchDaily): The Biennale curator, Lesley Lokko, mentioned that “the historical past of structure isn’t fallacious, however incomplete.” How does “Terra” relate to “The Laboratory of the Future”?

Gabriela de Matos: Structure historical past is incomplete as a result of our focus has at all times been on structure manufacturing within the World North: Europe, the USA and many others. I imagine that our proposal relates on to “The Laboratory of the Future”, because it presents an structure manufacturing that isn’t even acknowledged as architectural manufacturing. So, moreover proposing one other method of understanding these experiences, we additionally search to increase structure primarily based on different histories and cultures.

Paulo Tavares: Structure has different tales to inform. Tales that haven’t been instructed, that haven’t been made seen, that haven’t been narrated as a result of they had been one way or the other suppressed by canonical structure narratives. So, “Terra” pavilion can be a method of presenting these different tales in a Brazilian context. The spatial practices we current, moreover usually not being thought-about architectural productions, have additionally been marginalized within the illustration of nationwide creative and cultural traditions. In a rustic shaped by such cultural, ethnic, and racial range as Brazil, it’s needed to contemplate these different narratives. That is, the opposite tales, the opposite architectures, the opposite memorials and the opposite heritage. That is how we reply to the curator’s query.

Victor Delaqua (ArchDaily): The pavilion’s first gallery is titled “De-colonizing the Canon”. Which architectural canon do you propose to decolonize?

PT: From a common perspective of architectural historical past, the canon may be very a lot associated to the truth that modernism and modernity largely reworked the illustration of nationwide expressions. That is noticed by how modernism and modernist legacies at all times seem as important identification markers. In Venice, that is carried out via the Brazilian pavilion itself, which is a modernist constructing designed by Henrique E. Mindlin and Giancarlo Palanti. On this context, it appeared vital to us to inform these different tales and problematize the canonical narrative, which is the narrative of the trendy capital, Brasilia. All of the aspirations of a contemporary Brazil had been represented by the town, a logo of modernity and the way forward for the nation. There’s a historiographical and ideological building round Brasilia. This paints the town as a spot of occupation of the territory, of taking Brazilian territory as an indication of modernity.

In our curatorial mission, we purpose to have a look at these territories in a method that differs from the hegemonic canonical narrative, highlighting the ancestral presence of quilombola and indigenous peoples who occupied these territories lengthy earlier than. Telling different tales additionally means difficult canonical narratives, and it’s no coincidence that we exhibit Brasília once more. A mission that has already been exhaustively uncovered, however introduced right here from a special perspective, in order that we take a look at the identical historical past, however with a view that enables for different interpretations.

GM: Along with this different method of seeing Brasilia and questioning the canon, we additionally query the perpetuation of this canon. Not solely when it comes to chronological location but additionally within the sense that we proceed to coach architects with the identical references. We proceed to perpetuate this canon. So, via the “Terra” pavilion, we additionally elevate a debate targeted on structure schooling and coaching.

VD: The video “O Sacudimento da Casa da Torre e o Sacudimento da Maison des Esclaves em Gorée” by Ayrson Heráclito showcases ancestral gestures to keep off the eguns and ghosts of colonialism from these buildings. This act appears to be a metaphor for the curatorial proposal: shaking off modernity and structure canon. What’s the significance of this paintings within the subject of artwork and the way do you see it in relation to the remainder of the exhibition?

GM: The primary time I noticed this paintings I used to be extraordinarily shocked as a result of every part we query about decolonizing structure and giving it a brand new that means is contained on this work – which can be an expertise. After we had been curating the exhibition, this work got here as a synthesis of every part introduced within the pavilion, in a really performative and creative method.

It opens the second gallery as a result of it’s from this shaking that we current all the opposite works and content material of the exhibition. It is sort of a start line. What Ayrson does in these two buildings proven within the video, Paulo and I do within the pavilion, with its grounding. The pavilion grounding turns into a place to begin for every part introduced in our curatorial mission.

PT: A lot of what we current within the pavilion speaks about reparation, retrieval, and reconstruction, and this paintings by Ayrson dialogues with that by questioning how we are going to cope with the colonial legacy in structure. That can be what we do by deciphering the Brazilian Pavilion not as a impartial area however as one thing saturated with sure narratives, sure recollections, and sure notions of nationality. As we elaborated on the curatorial proposal, we realized that we couldn’t take the pavilion as a impartial object. As an alternative, we should always take it as a curatorial object.. Thus, on this site-specific set up designed by the curatorial workforce, which we name “Aterramento”, we convey three parts that redefine the constructing: the Sankofa grids that reconfigure the modernist facade; a big grounding plan that transforms the pavilion right into a type of terreiro and anchors the area within the earth; and at last, a sequence of materials commissioned for the weavers of Alaká, which adorn the pavilion in an identical approach to the flags of terreiro barracks.

So, in a method, grounding is our method of shaking issues up. It’s also an invite to the general public to step on the bottom, really feel the earth, and be on the bottom. This shaking could relate extra to the Brazilian context – within the sense of revisiting narratives – however it additionally has a worldwide and common that means, which is to know the earth as a planet, as a typical soil, as the house of all life.

GM: It’s a proposal to the general public that claims: “Effectively, if you wish to perceive what we’re displaying right here, it is very important step on the bottom.” It’s one other mind-set, with everybody stepping in the identical method and in the identical place. Within the e-book “Futuro Ancestral,” Ailton Krenak talks about our disconnection from the earth as a result of we’re conditioned to suppose it’s soiled. How can we count on complete generations that affiliate the earth with dust to attach with pressing environmental and local weather points? This can be a international reflection as a result of it connects to many contexts.

Moreover, it is usually an invite to consider the earth as an historical and future expertise concurrently. An invite to consider how we will affiliate it with right now’s applied sciences and construct extra respectfully with the atmosphere.

PT: The earth has no scale: it’s soil, it’s floor, it’s native, however on the identical time, it’s transversal, it’s cosmic and international. So, it was very fascinating to consider the earth from this trans-scalar dimension. It is vitally native, very rooted, and talks concerning the nation, about belonging, and likewise about a difficulty that impacts everybody.

RB: I want to hear from you concerning the “Locations of Origin, Archeologies of the Future” gallery, the place you current 5 important locations: Tia Ciata’s Home in Little Africa in Rio de Janeiro, the Tava in Rio Grande do Sul, the terreiros in Salvador, the Agroforestry Programs of the Rio Negro, and the Iauaretê waterfall. What led to this choice?

GM: The 5 chosen locations are associated to this understanding of earth that we suggest. For instance, Tia Ciata’s Home in Little Africa was a diasporic Afro-Brazilian cultural resistance the place varied creative expressions culminated, together with samba. The primary samba in Brazil was recorded there. It’s subsequently a really sturdy cultural core linked to that territory.

The terreiros in Salvador likewise have a really sturdy relationship with the territory itself – many are even made out of earth. However additionally they present a really direct connection to the problem of preserving massive parts of the forest. Not just for preservation functions however one thing previous to that, in a way of belonging. A belonging the place every part and everybody issues. The curatorial method raises this level: Earth as dwelling to each human and non-human life.

PT: We’re additionally speaking concerning the Conventional Agricultural Programs of the Rio Negro, the Tava – which is the Museum of the Missions, which the Guarani folks seek advice from because the Stone Home – and the Iauaretê waterfall of the Tukano, Arawak, and Maku folks. You will need to emphasize that these are memorial locations. They’re all thought-about heritage by completely different nationwide establishments, and a few additionally by UNESCO. Our analysis investigated what these reference and memorial locations are, and what could or will not be thought-about heritage. These locations level to a different relationship with the land. These are methods of coping with and referring to the earth. In our understanding, they’re carefully associated to the way forward for the planet.

For instance, the terreiros present a detailed relationship with the forest and the waters – issues that trendy environmentalism defends, however which have already been established for a very long time. Equally, the Iauaretê waterfall is seen as a reference level for Western Amazonians, however in a hegemonic imaginative and prescient, it’s only a pure object. We’re speaking about locations that mark a deeply land-related ancestry but additionally level to what we name a beforehand present future – a future that’s already current and has been right here for a very long time.

On this sense, the very thought of heritage is questioned. UNESCO acknowledges Brasilia as heritage. We query the historical past of this heritage and convey different heritage references, pointing to a horizon of reparation the place the earth is dwelling to all life.

VD: Many ancestral architectures are primarily based on non-hegemonic cosmologies and cultures, therefore unknown to a lot of the public. How can these works be learn of their contexts?

PT: This query sheds gentle on heritage. How structure is outlined is at all times associated to what’s understood as creative and cultural heritage. And though the initiatives we’re bringing are expressions or representations of an structure that’s often not perceived as structure, they’ve a really sturdy spatial grounding as they’re locations of reminiscence, locations of reference, or what we will name locations of origin.

If we observe modern discussions within the subject of structure, which relate to insurance policies and query the legacies of colonialism and racism rooted in public reminiscence via monuments, I believe we’re deeply engaged with this historic context current within the self-discipline. On this sense, we would like structure as a apply to take a task on the earth, and the pavilion speaks quite a bit about repairing. We hope this resonates with each specialist and common audiences, as we imagine sensitivity to those points is within the air.

GM: I’d additionally say that that is the right second to focus on these different views. Lesley Lokko invitations us to study African diaspora experiences. Among the ones we convey listed here are instantly associated to that.

RB: Do you see this work being carried out at another time within the final 4 years? I believe it is unlikely. I believe it is also an opportune second in our nationwide context.

PT: This can be a pavilion that speaks of reconstruction and restore, implicitly or explicitly. It’s spectacular how sure occasions in Brazilian contemporaneity occurred in dialogue with our curatorial course of. Probably the most putting instance stands out as the marketing campaign the terreiro Casa Branca do Engenho Velho ran in opposition to the specter of lack of territory because of actual property hypothesis in Salvador. For the final 4 years, nothing has been carried out by the authorities; a motion to cease hypothesis that threatens the terreiro has solely not too long ago emerged. In an interview, Gabriela asks, “How can we glance to the longer term if we do not know the place we got here from?” I believe the pavilion is in shut dialogue with this.

GM: This curatorial proposal was designed final October, which raised loads of concern. We didn’t have this elected authorities, there was no Ministry of Tradition or Ministry of Racial Equality. It was a shot at the hours of darkness, as we may current this pavilion in a very completely different and fewer receptive context.

RB: You speak concerning the relationship between decolonization and decarbonization. How do heritage, previous, and current relate to modern city, territorial, and environmental points?

PT: When Sônia Guajajara took workplace as Minister of Indigenous Peoples in Brazil, she mentioned that “the longer term is ancestral.” This phrase has accompanied us from the very starting of this work. The experiences of different non-Western philosophical and cultural matrices, introduced within the pavilion, convey this concept very powerfully. As Lesley Lokko herself has defined, the decarbonization of the planet is inevitably associated to the decolonization of our ideas and structure.

Our cultural mission responds to this in a really direct method, particularly after we observe that the territories below the custody of indigenous and quilombola populations are the territories the place the safety of the land as the house of all frequent life happens most effectively, as demonstrated by varied nationwide and worldwide analysis. However it is very important emphasize that this safety is finished in an lively method, which means spatial manufacturing, not within the sense that every part there may be untouchable. Quite the opposite, it’s a safety that takes form via cultivation and panorama design.

The pavilion acknowledges these spatial practices as panorama design, as structure, and as area manufacturing that foster biodiversity. That is important as a result of when one thing is positioned in a pavilion on the Structure Biennale, it’s acknowledged as a related architectural expertise. Subsequently, our work consists of recognizing these practices as elementary practices for the way forward for each Brazil and the planet.

VD: More and more, we acknowledge the basic position of different brokers who aren’t architects within the building of area. How does your contribution work together with the way forward for this self-discipline that expands into invisibilized locations and practices?

GM: I imagine that for a very long time, we ignored these different practices as a result of they did not observe the sample we understood as structure. And we all know precisely which productions had been omitted, do not we? So, I believe that our curatorial work contributes on this path, in bringing collectively, giving a spot, and understanding these different productions, and likewise acknowledging that structure pertains to many different disciplines. Issues turn out to be extra complicated and full when various voices contribute.

You will need to perceive that our nation was constructed on a racist basis that faraway from data manufacturing areas individuals who successfully constructed the nation. The enslaved workforce chargeable for the development of colonial structure, which we so admire and exhibit to the world, is Black and African. They had been taken from a spot the place some architectural practices had been already millennium-old, whereas Brazilian colonial structure was simply rising. We have now a lot to study from our historical past, and our curatorial proposal is simply an preliminary step that we hope can pave the best way for different works that additional deepen this analysis towards a much less elitist and extra various structure.

PT: What’s proven in an structure exhibition? What’s vital to exhibit at a Biennale? Normally, it presents the state-of-the-art of up to date structure, saying “Look, that is what has been related within the final two years.” That is essentially the most basic format, so to talk.

I imagine that our curatorial gesture, of bringing these different architectures and spatialities, invitations architects and guests to replicate on what’s to come back. However as an alternative of presenting what has been carried out within the final two years, what can be referred to as the avant-garde of structure, we present areas which have been there for a very long time, some for hundreds of years. They point out a doable future, a possible future. We are sometimes requested concerning the significance of rescuing the previous, however we’re not rescuing any previous; we’re speaking, in fact, about issues which are ancestral, usually linked to temporalities that escape Western chronology, however which are experiences of the modern. We communicate of a future that’s each ancestral and current on the identical time.

RB: This picture of non-linear time the place ancestry, contemporaneity, and future appear to mingle may be very stunning. The works you convey to the galleries discover this notion in varied methods.